A decent away point in many respects. It was a much better performance than Wednesday’s overall (still just as bloody cold though!) Thought Gunter did well, Gomes pleasantly surprised me and the front two at least managed to link up in Stoke’s half. However, it would be better if they tried it around the opposition’s box.....
The two things I found most frustrating were
A) our insistence on playing many of our G.Ks short....did we not learn anything from Barnsley?
B) When we did launch it long, it was almost always to Baldock, who was half the size of their CB and barely won a header all match. Joao was hanging around, looking every inch the target man...but we didn’t use him that way. Oh well. If you had offered me a point and a clean sheet before the match, I’d reluctantly have taken it. Feel pretty much the same now. Better...but not exactly inspiring.

That really was a shocking game and I thought it was a flaccid and lazy performance. Happy with a point but we never felt like we wanted to win that.

In Craig Revel Horwood words, a 2/10 game at best. No excitement, no passion from either side and little quality except a few moments from Ejaria.

A decent point but a terrible game almost devoid of any entertainment on a cold windy day. We had a lot of possession but it was Stamball going nowhere. The team seemed incapable of creating any threat and I barely recall a chance or a save at either end. Stoke had what few chances there where with shots going wide, they have a really decent team and if they could start scoring and get some confidence they'd be up there - a bit like us.

We kept doing the short passing goal kicks and Stoke, no doubt having seen at Barnsley how shit we are at it, did the high press and nearly got something on a couple of occasions. Even when we beat the press we went nowhere with the later passes so you have to wonder why we bother if it gains us no advantage.

I thought Gunter was particularly frustrating, he must of had instructions not to get forward and stick with McClean as we were desperate for some width.

Terrible game, however, it was a decent point against a team that really should be further up the table with the players they have at their disposal. Finally we got away from five at the back, that system was killing me, but i would prefer a 4-3-3 with Joao as the main striker and Meite and Boye playing as the inside forwards. The midfield and defense were fine.
Our passing was much better today but still to slow to really hurt Stoke. Derby is turning into a must win game if we are to put some daylight between us and the pack at the bottom, and lets be honest, Derby are in a real bad run of form at the moment so we must be positive and take the game to them which is something that Bowen promised but has so far failed to deliver.
Yes, we have injuries to key players, but we still have a decent group to work with including some of the younger players chomping at the bit to prove their worth.
Onward and hopefully upwards.....

Not a single shot on target all game from either team according to beeb. #enthralling

Thought about going to this but ended up heading to Maidenhead Utd vs Hemel Hempstead in the Fa trophy instead.

Good day out all in all.

You’ve done this a few times and we’ve all indulged you by not saying anything.

Now shut the fcuk up.

Just a thought. Lots of people mentioning us passing the ball out short from the back. Could that be because, with it's two open corners, the stadium turns it into a tornado simulator on a windy day, making long kicks unpredictable?

You’ve done this a few times and we’ve all indulged you by not saying anything.

Now shut the fcuk up.

Lolz. And +1.

Stoke fans really do voice their displeasure eh?

Thought the game was really odd. We really struggled for large patches to transition the ball but then, when we did that part well (funnily enough Gubter was involved everytime we made good movement up the pitch), we looked unlikely to even shoot. Guess that's what Meite and Puscas bring? A willingness to shoot on sight? I know both have fluffed a fair amount if chances but is it better to see players fluff chances than not take them at all?

It seems decision making is our biggest problem. We have experience, talent, fitness, aerial ability, options for each position and players capable of making their presence felt in a physical sense but nobody capable of consistently making the correct attacking decision.

A question on Adam for everyone: Is his ability to go direct a useful tool for the season or something that breaks down our style of play?

I noticed he made some very nice passes forward but absolutely nobody made runs as they were not expecting it. Is it just Adam reverting to what he knows/is best at or are the other players simply not on that wavelength yet?

We were shite.

Sorry but there was little to be positive about apart from an away draw.

ZERO shots on target all game.
Just ‘safely’ passing it around the back.

Adam did ok , no one was really shit. Blackett did ok.

Given there was talk of 9 points against these easier sides this was just dismal.

My talking points

1- now we see hw much we miss swift possibly
2- I have little faith in Cabral and his punches
3- have the wheels come off Bowen’s honeymoon?

1- Think that was evident before this game.
2 - As I said a few weeks back - A debate about Rafael is coming.
3 - Dunno. I think he is suffering from certain fans being overly positive early on. His game time tactical decisions are troubling and, even worse, now he is getting to the point (not his fault obviously) where injuries can start being blamed. It's going to be hard to evaluate him when he has had to go so many games where he can, justifiably, look at and say "I didnt get to pick the team I wanted because player X was injured".

I would be happy if we drew all our remaining away games 0-0, boring or otherwise

We have no divine right to win away... Stoke and Barnsley have decent recent form

Imagine if Barnsley had beaten QPR 5-3 and we then went there and drew 1-1
People would be praising RFC...
Barnsley can clearly play going forward.

Stoke had just won 3-0 (albeit against Luton) and their new manager is very decent

I thought we'd probably lose. 0-0 is a VG result

Last 3 games away, 5 points, that is championship-winning away form

(Shame about Fortress Madjeski)

1-0 PRESTON
2-2 QPR Away
2-1 MILLWALL
3-0 LUTON
0-1 Brentford Away
0-1 LEEDS
3-1 Wigan Away
2-3 BIRMINGHAM
1-1 Barnsley Away
0-0 Stoke Away

P10 W4 D3 L3 14-10 = 15 Points = a 69-Point Season Equivalent

In this ten-game-spell we have played 2nd, 3rd, 4th and Millwall who are flying

Considering how we looked when Bowen came in, that is VERY decent.

Brentford and Leeds were not terrible results. Only the Birmingham game should be considered a poor result

1- Think that was evident before this game.
2 - As I said a few weeks back - A debate about Rafael is coming.
3 - Dunno. I think he is suffering from certain fans being overly positive early on. His game time tactical decisions are troubling and, even worse, now he is getting to the point (not his fault obviously) where injuries can start being blamed. It's going to be hard to evaluate him when he has had to go so many games where he can, justifiably, look at and say "I didnt get to pick the team I wanted because player X was injured".

Every manager has to face injuries to first choice players. It's how they cope with that which defines how good a manager they are, not how they do when everything is going their way. Furthermore, we have a much stronger squad in depth than a good many teams in this division (more than one manager from other teams has made envious remarks about that) so Bowen's task should be less difficult.

As for Rafael and particularly his punching, I can't recall his punches getting us into trouble, in fact the opposite. He comes hard, strong and punches with distance. In a recent game, some old 'expert' behind me was giving him stick for opting to punch, rather than catch in a pressured situation and windy conditions. Clearly he hasn't realised that balls have changed, can dip and swerve significantly in flight and no longer have leather laces that a keeper can grab hold of!

Yes agree with that, and we have taken points from losing positions in three games, something we rarely did under Gomes/Clement.

An away point anywhere at this time of season is okay in my view.

1- Think that was evident before this game.
2 - As I said a few weeks back - A debate about Rafael is coming.
3 - Dunno. I think he is suffering from certain fans being overly positive early on. His game time tactical decisions are troubling and, even worse, now he is getting to the point (not his fault obviously) where injuries can start being blamed. It's going to be hard to evaluate him when he has had to go so many games where he can, justifiably, look at and say "I didnt get to pick the team I wanted because player X was injured".

Every manager has to face injuries to first choice players. It's how they cope with that which defines how good a manager they are, not how they do when everything is going their way. Furthermore, we have a much stronger squad in depth than a good many teams in this division (more than one manager from other teams has made envious remarks about that) so Bowen's task should be less difficult.

As for Rafael and particularly his punching, I can't recall his punches getting us into trouble, in fact the opposite. He comes hard, strong and punches with distance. In a recent game, some old 'expert' behind me was giving him stick for opting to punch, rather than catch in a pressured situation and windy conditions. Clearly he hasn't realised that balls have changed, can dip and swerve significantly in flight and no longer have leather laces that a keeper can grab hold of!
I should clarify the reason I said "even worse" is that I detest managers using injuries as an excuse. Yes it is sometimes true but when a new manager comes in an injury crisis is especially annoying as it makes it hard to evaluate how good they are. With Swift do we snatch a goal against Leeds? Or Brentford? With Puscas do we score against Stoke? These questions will now follow the debate about whether or not Bowen is any good for quite some time. Especially if we dont win soon.

On the Rafael debate I was more talking about the "is he actually any good" question which is already rearing its head. I'm still not sure.

Yes, a lot depends on the next 2 home games as to how Bowen will be seen

His overall record is still pretty solid. Anyone who thinks we should just expect to go to Barnsley and Stoke and pick up 6 points is deluded. We’re not WBA or Leeds

2 home wins in the next 2 and things will look good again. Any less than 4 and he’ll be getting a little worried

I can answer those 2 for you

It was a ‘no’

I can answer those 2 for you

It was a ‘no’

Probably, yeah.

Yes agree with that, and we have taken points from losing positions in three games, something we rarely did under Gomes/Clement.

An away point anywhere at this time of season is okay in my view.

It is only any good if we win our home games and that is far from a gimme.
Derby and QPR games will tell us more about whether we are likely to stay just about safe or get dragged into the relegation battle.
I would be happy with 4 points from those 2 games, very happy if it were 6, but 2 or less would be worrying.

Yes agree with that, and we have taken points from losing positions in three games, something we rarely did under Gomes/Clement.

An away point anywhere at this time of season is okay in my view.

It is only any good if we win our home games and that is far from a gimme.
Derby and QPR games will tell us more about whether we are likely to stay just about safe or get dragged into the relegation battle.
I would be happy with 4 points from those 2 games, very happy if it were 6, but 2 or less would be worrying.
I thought we would beat Birmingham and Barnsley so on that evidence I can see us getting 2 points or less.

1- Think that was evident before this game.
2 - As I said a few weeks back - A debate about Rafael is coming.
3 - Dunno. I think he is suffering from certain fans being overly positive early on. His game time tactical decisions are troubling and, even worse, now he is getting to the point (not his fault obviously) where injuries can start being blamed. It's going to be hard to evaluate him when he has had to go so many games where he can, justifiably, look at and say "I didnt get to pick the team I wanted because player X was injured".
Still doing ok.

P10, W4, D3, L3. 1.5 ppg, WWDWLLWLDD
Most our recent managers could only dream of that.

Obviously disappointing that the 'easier' run of games hasn't led to a good string of results. But crucially, we didn't lose to either team below us, and we've maintained a 5 pt gap so far. We're keeping the scoreboard ticking over at least.

Bowen hasn't got everything tight, but we shouldn't forget Gomes left as he found us, in terrible form with an unbalanced squad. And losing Swift and Ejaria at the same time was a big blow.

And we have a game in hand still.

1- Think that was evident before this game.
2 - As I said a few weeks back - A debate about Rafael is coming.
3 - Dunno. I think he is suffering from certain fans being overly positive early on. His game time tactical decisions are troubling and, even worse, now he is getting to the point (not his fault obviously) where injuries can start being blamed. It's going to be hard to evaluate him when he has had to go so many games where he can, justifiably, look at and say "I didnt get to pick the team I wanted because player X was injured".

Every manager has to face injuries to first choice players. It's how they cope with that which defines how good a manager they are, not how they do when everything is going their way. Furthermore, we have a much stronger squad in depth than a good many teams in this division (more than one manager from other teams has made envious remarks about that) so Bowen's task should be less difficult.

As for Rafael and particularly his punching, I can't recall his punches getting us into trouble, in fact the opposite. He comes hard, strong and punches with distance. In a recent game, some old 'expert' behind me was giving him stick for opting to punch, rather than catch in a pressured situation and windy conditions. Clearly he hasn't realised that balls have changed, can dip and swerve significantly in flight and no longer have leather laces that a keeper can grab hold of!

Agree re: manager and injuries. Every team has injuries. We have a deep squad as you say.

Disagree about Rafa though. Against Stoke alone he did two punches at least which I would say got us into trouble. Most other punches may not have got us into trouble but very few of them did I ever think “oh I’m glad he did that, well done”. Most of the time I cringe and think why didn’t he catch it... those ones May not get us into trouble but they certainly invite pressure. I’d agree with you about the old git not realising about the wind, but Rafa punches all the time even when it’s perfectly still. We would be fine if he just did it now and then on windy days like most keepers but I’m beginning to lose the faith a bit. I have never thought he’s a good keeper. BUT also he’s definitely not shit, not a liability. He’s just average. He’s not the reason we are doing badly as a team, unless he is totally inept at organising a defence. I shall defer to those who know more about keepers and defence organisation to comment on that one. I’ve rarely played in defence.

Good old stat crunching.

How about we take away the honeymoon period, which everyone knows is a real phenomenon (or to use a ridiculously thick sounding Americanism is a “thing” *puke*). Where do stats take us without the first 4 games?

I hope your more positive stats are correct and we continue to do well. I like Bowen. Of course we all want him to succeed.

But it is equally valid to call honeymoon on the early games or at the very least concede that something seems to have slipped quite worryingly, with some strange tactical calls in recent weeks, Stamball making a comeback etc etc. Our game plan against Stoke was basically “Pass it around the back to death and then give it to Adam to launch one up the pitch for Baldock to win against a player twice his size”.

1- Think that was evident before this game.
2 - As I said a few weeks back - A debate about Rafael is coming.
3 - Dunno. I think he is suffering from certain fans being overly positive early on. His game time tactical decisions are troubling and, even worse, now he is getting to the point (not his fault obviously) where injuries can start being blamed. It's going to be hard to evaluate him when he has had to go so many games where he can, justifiably, look at and say "I didnt get to pick the team I wanted because player X was injured".
Still doing ok.

P10, W4, D3, L3. 1.5 ppg, WWDWLLWLDD
Most our recent managers could only dream of that.

Obviously disappointing that the 'easier' run of games hasn't led to a good string of results. But crucially, we didn't lose to either team below us, and we've maintained a 5 pt gap so far. We're keeping the scoreboard ticking over at least.

Bowen hasn't got everything tight, but we shouldn't forget Gomes left as he found us, in terrible form with an unbalanced squad. And losing Swift and Ejaria at the same time was a big blow.

And we have a game in hand still.

Fair.

Not unreasonable to start asking Qs though.

Yes agree with that, and we have taken points from losing positions in three games, something we rarely did under Gomes/Clement.

An away point anywhere at this time of season is okay in my view.

It is only any good if we win our home games and that is far from a gimme.
Derby and QPR games will tell us more about whether we are likely to stay just about safe or get dragged into the relegation battle.
I would be happy with 4 points from those 2 games, very happy if it were 6, but 2 or less would be worrying.

Well yeah. It depends where Reading fans are with their expectations. It is so interesting that you are talking in relegation fight terms. I find this so sad.

We had a team that was a penalty kick away from the PL. We invested £££s and made two manager changes to retain that but were somehow dragged into relegation fights. We spent HUGELY to really get ourselves out of it and back 'where we belong' challenging for promotion. We then made yet another manager change.

This is really really not good enough to talk about safety especially with this squad.

Most would agree the squad we have should be pushing for playoffs even at this stage of the season. Gomes said it, Bowen says it. The owners expect it and so should fans.

Gomes was changed not just because he might take us down, but because he was not likely to take us up. I put it to people that Bowen was chosen not just to keep us safe but to realise the potential of the squad and catapault us up at least into the top half asap.

To still be saying we hope we can "stay just about safe" sounds bizarre to many of us. Now obviously, the more time goes on, the harder it is mathematically to get into the playoffs, the more confidence drains, the less likely a promotion push is and then we're in the same game as previous seasons with "at least we didn't go down." Some of us thought if Bowen is a master stroke he'll stay but if he's not proven himself quickly by Xmas he'll be gone.

I wonder how much more the owners will put up with this for.

Good old stat crunching.

How about we take away the honeymoon period, which everyone knows is a real phenomenon (or to use a ridiculously thick sounding Americanism is a “thing” *puke*). Where do stats take us without the first 4 games?

I hope your more positive stats are correct and we continue to do well. I like Bowen. Of course we all want him to succeed.

But it is equally valid to call honeymoon on the early games or at the very least concede that something seems to have slipped quite worryingly, with some strange tactical calls in recent weeks, Stamball making a comeback etc etc. Our game plan against Stoke was basically “Pass it around the back to death and then give it to Adam to launch one up the pitch for Baldock to win against a player twice his size”.
Given we've gone through a lot of managers in recent years, and none of them have had anything like the start Bowen did, in fact most started badly, I think the honeymoon new manager bounce is vastly over stated.

Gomes was 100% replaced because he might take us down

Bowen was given the task to stabilising and getting us comfortably safe. Anyone thinking we would challenge for promotion after where Gomes left us (not totally his fault) is not being sensible

Big opportunity next season assuming we stay up of reshaping the squad with lots of high earners leaving

Without the first 4, we're LLWLDD

So 5 from 6. About 0.8ppg. Which isn't great, but isn't awful and is certainly an improvement on how Gomes finished.